MEMBERS ABSENT:

TIM MADDEN, MEMBER

GUESTS ATTENDING:

ATTENDANCE LIST OF GUESTS IS ATTACHED

I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER: Mr. Saunders called the meeting to order at 6:08 p.m. and addressed the guests, residents from the Belle Coeur subdivision. He explained that the minutes would first be approved and then we would open the floor for resident’s comments.

Minutes from the April 29, 2003 meeting were approved by the committee as written.

II. DISCUSS NEW BUSINESS:

A. Traffic Calming Requests

Lt. Eidman stated there are no additional traffic calming requests at this time.

B. Discuss Belle Coeur Subdivision Traffic Calming

Mr. Saunders stated that Chief Beardslee would complete his presentation to the committee and guests and that all comments should be held until he finishes, with the exception of the committee’s questions. He also requested the audience to try and keep focused on the issues without too much emotion although, the committee understands there are many views and passionate feelings regarding the traffic calming. Finally, he requested the audience to begin comments with their name and address for the record.

Chief Beardslee made a presentation of the statistics requested by the City Council to do a 90-day assessment of the Belle Coeur traffic situation and the previous statistics gathered from the onset. Chief Beardslee informed the committee that Lt. Eidman played key part in this project then he gave a brief explanation of the situation in Belle Coeur from the annexation to today. The City followed the procedures of the Traffic Calming Plan, which is available on web site. Belle Coeur was already ahead of the curve with traffic calming with the roundabouts. Then at the request of the residents of Belle Coeur, the city started formal initiatives using traffic calming features and devices. One such device was the bump out, which was not effective. The Chief reminded the committee and guests that we are limited by city ordinances and fire codes as to what traffic calming devices we can utilize. After reviewing what could and could not be used we ended up with the barricades.

Chief explained how calming is addressed as per the Traffic Calming Plan. In Phase I, we educate, make the public aware and push voluntary compliance. We concentrated enforcement by having officers are set up on a regular basis and randomly enforcing the area. They accomplished this by stopping motorists, speaking with them, handing out warnings.

In the fall of 2002 it was decided (as per the Traffic Calming Plan) to go to Phase II. A Neighborhood Assessment Committee was formed to help with the approach to Phase II. In December 2002, Chief submitted a report to the (Traffic) committee and applied it to Chasselle. He then made recommendations to the City Council. Chief wanted to implement a one-way by the January 2003, but we could not meet that deadline. The newsletter article (Creve Coeur newsletter) about the one-way was printed in February, the signage was posted March 1 and a 15-day grace period was given, then ticketing began on March 16, 2003. Chief reviewed how many man hours have been used for the traffic calming in Belle Coeur subdivision, (copy attached).

Chief Bearslee then reviewed for the residents how the calming is determined as per the Traffic Calming Plan. The area has to score 4 points or higher per the criteria listed in the plan to qualify for traffic calming, which can include striping, additional curbs, sidewalk, and many other solutions. Chief Beardslee explained the formula, criteria and how many points were scored for Belle Coeur. Each home in the neighborhood is allowed one vote for the petitions, 75% support is necessary from the direct impact area and 25% support is necessary from the secondary area.

The Neighborhood Assessment Committee, NAC recommended changing the area to a “no-cut through” with restrictions from 3pm to 6pm, continued use of the barricades with some adjustments, one-way southbound between Champeix and Chamblee. The NAC did not support the recommendation to implement sidewalks, vertical curbs, or street widening.

Chief Beardslee reviewed to the residents, the vehicle speed counts from before the barricades were installed up to this month, May 2003, copy attached. Chief Beardslee suggested doing another traffic count to verify the traffic volume and direction of travel, to assess if there are illegal cut-throughs occurring on Clion, then to conduct enforcement.

Mr. Loren Lohman, Committee Member, asked Chief Beardslee if drivers are possibly using southbound Clion to avoid law enforcement.

Chief Beardslee stated that is why he would like to do another count and focus on that.

Mr. Scott Saunders, Chairman Traffic Committee, opened the meeting for comments from the residents.

Donna Meyer 240 Cuiseaux Court, her recommendation is to place a no outlet sign to force traffic one way in and one way out.

Sherry Doyel 635 Chamblee, drivers stop in her driveway to speak to her state that there are no speed signs; the street is a cut through because there are not signs on street stating it isn’t, and they use her driveway to turn around in.

Jim Gill 742 Champeix on the north end, after the drivers go through the bends, over the top of the hill, there is a straight shot and the drivers go “like hell”. His suggestion is to move the counter cables down further.

Nona Hancock 300 Clion, stated the she thought the point was to keep people out of subdivision. She believes the devices have not been much of an advantage and does not want anymore devices in the subdivision.

Chief Beardslee stated that we need additional signage or to update the existing signage to make it more clear.

Mike Patrick 354 Conway Garden Court, are the violators residents of the city or non-residents.

Chief Beardslee replied that it was not necessary to include resident violation data in the presentation because in the beginning the surveys indicated that Belle Coeur resident violations were not a significant factor in the speeding problem. Chief Beardslee advised that he remembers looking at how many other violators were City residents, but he could not recall the numbers. Chief Beardslee is not in favor of a gate due to public safety, law enforcement and crime prevention issues. It works in high crime areas to deter crime. In Belle Coeur it would slow response time for officers, the fire department and emergency response teams who have the right to use this as a cut through for emergencies. A gate barrier will tend to keep regular patrols out.

Laura Bryant, Council Member Ward IV, clarified that the by gate the term refers not to an electronic gate but to blocking one end of the subdivision making it a one way in and one way out subdivision.

Mike Stelzer 301 Chasselle Lane, as a member of the NAC the sole intent was to make the community safety for the residents. He lives in the middle of the area and watches Mason and Ladue. From about 4:00pm to 4:45pm it is quiet, and then about 4:45pm the traffic from Ladue and Mason increases. One day between 5:00pm to 5:20pm 27 vehicles came through. It takes about 75 seconds to come out at the north circle, as he has timed it and 27 vehicles in 20 minutes are too much. Traffic has increased in back, he believes there is too much signage and it is antiquated to the point that drivers are oblivious. He suggested changing the time frame of the cut through and that we should have a more concentrated effort dealing with the cut through.

Chief Beardslee stated that we cannot jump around based on opinions, we have to use the statistics and apply them to the standards we have set and then find a solution that we hope works.

Simon on Champeix, feels tension in neighborhood; he believes residents have not been heard by the traffic committee; he has not received any written notice of any plans, meetings or otherwise; his only information has been received by going to web site therefore, he believes most of the residents have had no input.

John Greider Committee Member, reminded Mr. Simon and the rest of the residents that the plan requires 75% of support from the residents and the petition was received that way.

Simon on Champeix, stated there were many suggestions of devices that were not used that could have worked but, this was never brought up to the subdivision nor were any meeting held for the residents.

Chief Beardslee stated that he couldn’t speak to level of communication within the subdivision. He reminded the residents to keep in mind that NAC discussed many methods. Devices that alter the roadway and/or property are controversial. The committee tried devices that were less intrusive and less costly at first. It was then suggested to utilize the 2 roundabouts that were already established there. Chief Beardslee stated that existing roundabouts are effective but that he suggests a mid-block round about.

Sherry Doyel 635 Chamblee Lane, stated that the residents on her block have little say even though they have more homes than the rest of the area. It seems that the committee has not been fair.

Chief Beardslee again stated that this seems to be a neighborhood communication problem. He reminded the residents that although he does not have the exact count of signatures on hand, that again the requirement is for 75% support is necessary from the direct impact area and 25% support is necessary from the secondary area and that we received more than 75% support from the direct impact and more than 64% on the secondary.

Kelly Cody, 4 Chasselle Lane, we need a solution to make everyone happy; she is a stay at home mom and doesn’t see how a third roundabout can help; vehicles are going very fast; it seems as if the city is just spinning wheels and spending money with no results; she believes a gate would be the best answer and give a remote to each emergency vehicle; how much time would we loose on response time.

Chief Beardslee, doesn’t know the exact figures.

David Kassander Council Member Ward III, stated that a functional gate could be put in place. A no entry from Ladue onto Chasselle with no right and no left turn signs would work better than installing a physical barrier.

Chief Beardslee, stated that this issue was discussed with the traffic committee and the NAC. It was decided that a full one way restriction would impact the Belle Coeur residents and that is not the solution they wanted.

Mr. Scott Saunders, Chairman Traffic Committee, the practical limitation is that it is hard to justify making the restriction when traffic is going the same direction on the one way.

David Kassander Council Member Ward III, suggested that building a cul-de-sac or closing off the subdivision with a structure and is similar to other streets in the area and throughout the country and should not affect any safety issues.

Chief Beardslee, stated that the requirement for an electronic gate is that the code and instructions on how to manually disconnect the gate has to be given to all emergency entities.

Ruth Cooper 211 Clion, we are not questioning what you are doing, but we need more information and an understanding of this information, many of these drivers are reckless and have put more children at risk since the installation of the one way signs. We need to fix this.

Chief Beardslee reminded residents not to confront drivers; road rage is a very serious situation.

Ann White 12979 Ambois, a gate will make it a private subdivision and Council stated that if you go private you must maintain our own streets.

Mr. Scott Saunders, Traffic Committee Chairman, explained that closing the subdivision does not make it private but the residents can make a request with the city to make their streets private.

Laura Bryant, Council Member Ward IV, the new subdivisions built since Belle Coeur are mostly one way in and one way out. She stated she would like to see all subdivisions treated more fairly.

Simon on Champeix, most of the residents have not requested closing off the subdivision. This is suggested as the great solution?

Mr. Scott Saunders, Traffic Committee Chairman, stated that we are not suggesting this to be the solution but is offered as another option to review and consider.

Scott Masterson 7 Chasselle Lane, there are differences within the subdivision; we need to look at the data and see what is safe; the city owes us to review the data, to do more that they are; let us the residents of the subdivision not be divided but pull together and move forward toward a solution.

Don Hewkin 12 Chasselle Lane, the main issue was to keep the young children in the subdivision safe; it’s like walking on I-270; there will be a tragedy soon; there is more traffic than ever before; the emphasis should be placed on safety of the children and not on the inconvenience.

Steven Lowe Mason Manor, stated he has 4 drivers in his family who drive Chasselle many times daily; the easiest successful way to make this safe is to put in sidewalks, this will make it easier and safer,

Chief Beardslee, historically the desire to have or not have sidewalks, is with the residents, the residents have said no up to now.

John Surgant Committee Member, stated he lives in Ward I and didn’t know where Chasselle was until about 6 years ago when he joined the committee. Frankly he is fed up with hearing about Chasselle. He stated to the residents that the need to come together on these issues. The residents opposed the bump-outs so we tried barricades and they opposed those also. There may not be a solution on Chasselle and if there is Creve Coeur Fire Protection District regulations can overrule any Council decision. Keep in mind the fire code trumps all city ordinances. With Mr. Scott Saunders and Mr. Jim Kiske’s help we approached this as a public safety issue and we are grateful for the Police Department’s help. Nobody in Belle Coeur has been happy with anything this committee has done. We spent two years on almost exclusively on Chasselle and we can’t spend another two years on this issue which again may not have any resolution. Residents of Belle Coeur need get together and agree on recommendations they can bring this committee. Whatever the solution to this public safety and traffic issue is there will be pros and cons from everyone, there is no perfect solution, and any solution will not meet with everyone’s satisfaction.

Laura Bryant agreed.

Stanley Ferdman at 230 Clion, I agree with Mr. Surgant. I recognize a problem on Chasselle Lane and on the secondary streets, there is a safety problem, the people on Chasselle Lane recognize a problem but the rest of the residents of the subdivision did not.

Jim Gill 742 Champeix on the north end, was on NAC to help get this started, tried for 3 months and made an assessment, the results were not favorable. The attitudes among the drivers are poor; they indicate this with one finger that they are not happy. His suggestion is to expand the one way hours, return to the roundabouts as they were before we had calming devices, increase the speed to 25 mph and increase the penalty, this will make most residents happy.

Scott Masterson & Chasselle Lane, never compromise safety for the lack of inconvenience.

Mrs. Houseman Cuiseaux Court, historically the subdivision originally was only to have one entrance, trucks came in and out and finally an entrance emerged from Mason. At the time St. Louis County refused to close this entrance and it became a safety issue for everyone in the subdivision. She feels she can not walk in the subdivision without fear of being run down. We have tried many different things, the only solution is to put up a gate at one end and make this a one way subdivision.

A resident, stated that in his subdivision they teach the children to walk on front lawns not in street. We could open Chasselle from Hibler to Ladue or open Hibler to the Thompson Retreat and reconstruction Mason then we would be rid of all the traffic. But the cost is too high.

Jeff Thompson 3 Chasselle Lane NAC Member, stated he was one of the organizers in the beginning and empathizes with the people in back. Using the word gate make people upset so to redefine the meaning we need about $500 to put in a curb to keep traffic going one way. He stated that he tried to have the subdivision go private but that the City squashed the request stating that we could not have it. He also stated too many residents to speak to their trustee if they feel they are not getting the information necessary or go to the web site. He stated that between I70 and Route 141 there are 9 routes to take you north and there are no subdivision cut-through. No one really wants a cut through subdivision. As Mrs. Houseman stated, the builder clashed with County P&Z and wouldn’t pay the $450 to close the entrance. We’ll pay for a curb to cut off the traffic I’ll even pay for it. Why can’t the city say a mistake was made let’s fix it? Hibler had to be fixed, I-270 and Ladue had to be fixed, the Ice Arena has to be fixed, the Olive medians are taken care of, a new bridge on I-270. Now that we are part of Creve Coeur the City should be looking out for us with some asphalt, a tree and some dirt and the City can solve this.

Mike Patrick 354 Conway Garden, re-define the use of the term gate.

Mr. Scott Saunders, Traffic Committee Chairman, not a gate that opens but a fixed unit such as a curb or wall to block traffic. He also stated to the public that it is time to turn the meeting back over to the Traffic Committee to complete its business at 8:00 p.m. Mr. Saunders thanked the residents for attending and for their efforts Scott efforts to be passionate but not emotional. He stated that the committee and the City values their time to come and comment.

COMMITTEE DISCUSSION

Mr. John Surgant, we shouldn’t recommend anything more until the residents of the subdivision get together and make a recommendation they can agree upon. Mr. Surgant made a motion to shelve this issue until we hear from the residents of Belle Coeur.

Mr. John Greider stated that we were asked by Council to give them a recommendation.

Mr. Fred Lohmann suggested not using the term “shelving”. He agrees with Mr. Surgant that the neighborhood needs to come together but that the distribution of the numbers just beg more questions.

Chief Beardslee is not ready to stop traffic calming yet.

Mr. Fred Lohmann stated that if the NAC decides that they would petition for closing off the street, the issue would bypass this committee.

Mr. Scott Saunders stated that the dialogue can go on. He asked Mr. Lohmann if he was suggestion we wait for Chief Beardslee to review the anomalies of some of the statistics?

Chief Beardslee stated he is submitting a report to Council and wants more time to make sense of the numbers. If he is not ready by June 23, he will give Council what he has compiled and give them a time frame as to when it can be completed.

Mr. Fred Lohmann stated we are all saying same thing repeatedly.

Mr. Scott Saunders stated that we do not have time to complete in 2 weeks to meet again and to prepare for Council, would council find it inappropriate for us to ask for an extension.

Mr. David Kassander stated from his perspective that one meeting delay should not harm anything. He added that the northbound and southbound numbers may not make sense but the other numbers do.

Chief Beardslee again stated he would request the Council for a small block of time to present what he has found.

Mr. John Greider stated that the primary area has improved but has created a secondary traffic area.

Mr. Scott Saunders stated that if it was predictable, you would assume the back area traffic to be soutthbound, but it is not.

Chief Beardslee stated that there is a combination of many things going on here. He needs to clarify more issues such as, what, the extend of illegal cut-through during this time is.

Mr. John Surgant made the motion to, #1 double check what the strangeness of the Clion numbers by requesting the Police to gather additional data, #2 install or update signage, and #3 shelve further discussion of the Belle Coeur issue until we see the impact of signage and the fulfillment of the request of input from the NAC and residents by having a meeting and reporting to us at the next traffic meeting. Mr. Loren Lohmann seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.

Mr. Scott Saunders asked the committee and staff if we should advertise for a meeting for all residents or send notification to them.

Mr. Fred Lohmann stated the residents should have their own an open forum meeting before our meeting. The NAC was created by the requirements of the plan to keep the residents informed and request their input. The back street can create their own committee and make recommendations so long as they follow the plan. But, what the committee would like to see is all the neighbors getting together.

Mr. Loren Lohman stated that in our subdivision we tell our kids to walk on the lawns, we can grow more grass.

Mr. John Surgant stated that maybe a representative from the traffic committee should not attend the open forum meeting. The NAC should propose a meeting with residents, obtain a room at the government center, deal with this as a family and clarify the misconceptions, Chief Beardslee will clarify the numbers, increase enforcement on cut through, and retrieve more data for the area.

Mr. Loren Lohman suggested that the real solution to cut-through traffic is to re-open Falaise south from Hibler to Ladue, open the cul-de-sac at east Hibler south to the Thompson development and reconstruction Mason north of Ladue to align with Mason south of Ladue then 80% to 90% of the problem would be gone.

III. SCHEDULE NEXT REGULAR MEETING

The next regular meeting is scheduled for June 24, 2003.

IV. ADJOURNMENTS

Mr. Saunders adjourned the meeting at 8:45 p.m. Mr. John Surgant motioned to adjourn, Mr. John Greider seconded the motion and the motion passed unanimously.

Minutes taken by Connie J. Parish

MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE

I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER: Mr. Saunders called the meeting to order at 6:08 p.m. and addressed the guests, residents from the Belle Coeur subdivision. He explained that the minutes would first be approved and then we would open the floor for resident’s comments.

IV. ADJOURNMENTS